Remembering Life Pre-Birth + Between Lives with Christian Sundberg

Christian Sundberg has a really unique story. He remembers his life pre-birth, his in-between lives, and how he chose to come here and choose the family he was part of and the person and life he was going to live. When Christian was a young child, he remembered his existence before coming to Earth. While he forgot that for most of his adult life, it spontaneously returned 13 years ago when he took up a meditation practice. He also began to have out-of-body experiences.

Professionally, he has a really normal job. He's worked for 16 years as a project manager for complex nuclear pump manufacturing projects and also for an insurance company. Christian is the author of the book A Walk in the Physical, which attempts to describe the larger spiritual context in which we exist and the importance of love in our human journey. I met Christian at the IONS conference (International Association for Near-Death Studies). This is a really unique episode with a really unique story.

Hey everyone, I'm really excited to let you know about the Science and Spirituality Salon I'm now hosting. During these intimate events, a scientifically verified psychic medium will give all of you readings, and I will give a talk on the science and evidence that changed my mind about an afterlife. This will also be an amazing opportunity to get to meet some of you in person or virtually and to share more about all the science and data that transformed my worldview and got me through my worst days.

These can be hosted in your home, in a nearby cafe with a private room, or they can even be virtual. I've hosted a few already, and they were really special, fascinating, emotional, and evidential. So if you're interested in getting a small group together over dinner, brunch, drinks, or coffee to learn more about the science and to get evidential medium readings, send me an email at hello@WTFhappen.net and put "Science and Spirituality" in the title.

Welcome to What the F Just Happened. I'm your host, Liz Enton. If you listened to the intro, you know my story. If not, here's a brief summary: I'm a sciency skeptic, and when my dad died, I took a shot in the dark and decided to investigate if there was any possible evidence of an afterlife. I assumed that was as realistic as Santa Claus, but I was desperate. However, I was so blown away by what I discovered that I wrote a book and launched this podcast. In this podcast, I'll be talking to some fairly normal people about some really weird stuff. I speak with everyone from psychic mediums and afterlife researchers to ordinary people who've had some inexplicable experiences. So come listen. There's no need to draw any final conclusions. Keep an open mind and wonder, "What the F just happened?"

Hi, I am speaking now with Christian Sundberg. He is an author, and we met at the IONS conference. He has a really unique story, and I have honestly never heard it before from anyone else, so I am so happy to have him on. So, Christian, introduce yourself, tell us the name of your book, and why a touch about what happened.

Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me on the show. It was wonderful to meet you in DC. My whole family enjoyed it very much. So, in the human context, my name is Christian Sundberg. My body is 43 years old right now. I've worked professionally in the nuclear field for 16 years and now in insurance as a project manager. But I've had some really impactful personal spiritual experiences, non-physical experiences, including pre-birth memory returning to me. I remember choosing this incarnation and why. So, I didn't share that for about eight years. That memory returned around the age of 30.

I didn't share it because it's just the kind of thing you don't talk about, but I did end up publishing a book, not primarily about the experience but more about what the human experience is, what are we doing here on Earth. The book is called A Walk in the Physical because we are just here having a walk, having a journey and experience. The book was spirit-led. I felt chunks of it come to me intuitively over a period of about six years. I never once sat down and said, "Okay, I'm going to write a book now." That was never how it worked. It was just like intuitive guidance and guidance and guidance, and I was like, "I just got to get this down." Even the way it's organized was very spirit-led.

It's available for free on my website. It's not about money. I just want to share the message of what we really are, who we are here on Earth. I'm very, very passionate about that because our true nature is one of joy and freedom and love, and there's nothing to fear. We just really need to remind each other of that while we're here so deep in the play. I think we do have a lot of fear here, especially around death. The more evidence we can get that it's not the end, especially for left-brainers like me, that's so helpful.

So, I want to ask you first of all, there's so much to get into about this, but what led to this memory coming up in the first place of your before this life and between lives? Because I know we'll go into this further, but just to clarify, this is not your first human life, correct?

Correct. Yeah, so okay, that's a great question. So, up until the age of 30, I had no memory of this at all. When I was a very small child, I had some of this pre-birth memory, but it quickly left me by the age of like five or six. So, between the ages of five or six and 30, I had no memory of this at all. I saw the world through a very Lutheran Christian lens, but I was always a seeker. I came across the work of the physicist Tom Campbell. He's a consciousness explorer and has had many out-of-body experiences. I began to—can I just ask, is he the one who's the author of My Big TOE?

Yes, My Big TOE, my big theory of everything. That's right.

Yes, yes, okay. I love him as well. Okay, sorry, make sure it's the same Tom Campbell. Go on.

He encourages you to take up a meditation practice and to just very objectively go see what you are beneath thoughts, beneath thinking. So, at first, I just began and continued the meditation because it felt good. It felt relieving to have some relief from thinking. But after a few months, I had my first non-physical experience, and it was so eye-opening and shocking that I was like, "Oh my gosh, I just need to keep going down this path." So, I continued to meditate, and at some point, I'm not sure exactly when, but within the first year, probably a few months after that, the pre-birth memory was just there. It was the most normal thing in the world. It was like somebody had just blown leaves off of the ground, and there was the grass. It was like even more normal than the human experience that I was having. It was just much more personal and close to me than the human experience.

So, yeah, it sounds like this great revelation, and sure, the content is very rich and deep and personal, but not strange, very natural. So, you said before this memory came up of your pre-birth experiences, you had a non-physical experience that you thought was shocking. What was that? What happened?

Yeah, so in brief, I was having a dream, a normal dream, and then in this dream, this wave was going to come over and crush me. I told myself, "Okay, you're going to die now. Let go of the body." But then I woke up, even though my body didn't wake up. I woke up in this state of incredibly strong vibrations and sounds. It sounded like someone had parked a jet engine on either side of my head, and it was so freaking loud. It was louder than anything I'd ever heard on Earth. The vibrations were so strong; it felt like I was being shaken, like I was strapped to an engine. It was just so strong, and I was stuck there for maybe 15 or 20 long seconds, terrified. Then, when it finally ended, I jumped out of bed, sweating, and I was freaked out. I was like, "What the heck was that?" It was not subtle. It was scary, intense, but it was just like the first taste. It was like I had begun to touch other layers of being, other reality data streams, as Tom Campbell would put it. That can be experienced like strong static at first. But anyway, at the time, I didn't understand. I just knew, "Oh my gosh, that was really real. I have to keep going and investigating." So, I just kept going down the path, and since then, I've had a number of out-of-body experiences. It's very, very real, even more real than this Earth, very normal too.

It's so interesting you talk about the vibrations and the sounds because there's so much consistency in that. First of all, the vibrations—I've had people who've had NDEs talk about that. Their episodes will be out at some point, and people have talked about that. A lot of meditators, and I had an experience—if you read my book, you know I had this weird experience just early starting this where I felt all these waves, and then that sound you talked about, that's similar to what a lot of people hear when they have out-of-body experiences right before they go out of body, correct? Am I right in that?

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's very common actually. I didn't know it at the time. It just scared the crap out of me at the time.

So, it scared you. You didn't love it.

No, I didn't love it at that first moment. It didn't matter. My curiosity was greater than any fear it might have provoked because it was so real. So, I didn't keep meditating in order to have more experiences. That's not really how it worked for me. I just realized that by deeply coming to know what I really am, my consciousness itself, there were larger parts of me that just naturally would arrive. That's just the easiest way I can put it.

I'm going to ask you, and then I'm going to ask you about your experience of your pre-birth, in-between lives memory, but first, I'm going to ask you—you kept saying all this was actually really normal. What do you mean by that? Because if people hearing this for the first time might not say it's normal. I know it doesn't sound normal. I'm a normal guy, I promise, though I know it sounds really strange. What I mean is that—oh, this is difficult to speak to, and I want to just disclaim before we get into these topics that language is just incredibly insufficient. There's just no way to use earthly language to speak to our higher natures or for the higher realms from which we come because our language is based in our local world. It's based in form and symbol and all the assumptions of Earth that we just take for granted, like linear time, the discreet location. We really believe in those things. Our language is based on them and in them, but our higher nature precedes all of that context. So, it's almost impossible to speak about these things using language.

So, that being said, I can at least say that as we very simply—but not simply—but it's more difficult than it might seem on the human level, underneath all the levels of what we're not, underneath all the human story, our consciousness itself is already something. You could say that the you that feels like you to you is the most natural thing for you, and then that you has become wrapped up within the story of form, the story of the human condition, the human life. That's not really what you are. It's actually just kind of like a big virtual reality that you're deeply, deeply engaged in. So, that's what I mean like it's more normal because when you actually let go of all that, you're not letting go of the thinking, letting go of the judgments and the conditioning and the story, and you just dwell fully in the aliveness that you are, then what arises within that is very natural, very normal. And it can actually be seen that the experience of being separate, apparently separate, which is what the human experience is like—we experience separation rather deeply here, extremely deeply here. That's like the name of the game is to feel separate from each other. That is the actually the alien state of being by comparison.

I'm going to have more questions about that after, but first, what happened when you remembered this between lives experience? Or actually, you remembered before your very first life on Earth, am I correct? And then you also remember between lives. So, what did you remember? I guess we'll start linearly, even though apparently linear time isn't real, but we'll start with your first memory pre-birth life as a human.

Yeah, I've shared this a number of times, so I won't go into the full detail. It's a story that I've shared on a number of podcasts, but I'll just say that before I had ever incarnated, I came across a being who had incarnated. Okay, so this is like really difficult to speak to because then people want to know, "Okay, where were you? What was the environment? What did everything look like?" I'm happy to try to speak to some of that, but I'll just at least summarize very simply and say that I was in a different reality system at the time that looked like an environment of living light. I was and am that light too, and so is everybody else. I'm connecting with them, and when you engage with another being in that context, it's like a telepathic exchange. It's not words because separation is not a thing.

I could feel from this being the intense quality of his nature. He was full of so much power and joy and peace and freedom, and his evolution was just off the charts. I don't know how to describe this, and I was just very, very deeply inspired by who he was, what he was. I asked him, "How did you do this? How are you this?" And I asked, "Do you feel as much freedom and power as I feel that you feel?" And he shared, "Yes," and he allowed me to feel through and into him. And I asked, "How did you do that?" And one of the things he showed me was that he had lived a physical life where he had suffered a long-term health condition. He had suffered pain and ailment, and the way that he chose to meet that experience, process that experience, the way that his spirit met it and utilized it, allowed this incredible refinement of his being. And I was like, "Oh my gosh, I want to do that. I want to do that. I'm going to do that." And at first, he communicated something like, "Yeah, that's what they all say," not in a negative way, but kind of like, "You just don't understand how hard this can be." And I was like, "No, I mean it. I want to do it."

So, that was before I was ever had a physical incarnation, and since then, I've had many experiences. I ended up finding this being later and sharing with him that I was on the path. So, I don't know if that speaks to your initial question, but that's just a quick summary.

Yes, I have some more from it. So, when you ran into this being again, did you ever run into him on Earth?

I have no idea. I'm still like super veiled. I'm still a veiled being right now while I'm in the human condition. So, I mean, it's possible, but keep in mind, I don't want to get too far out in the woo weeds here, but keep in mind that Earth is not the only incarnation opportunity. So, you know, I know that he was physical, but it's a very big universe, and there's more than one universe even. It's a very huge multi-dimensional context. So, I have no idea if I've ever encountered the being here on Earth. I don't know. I mean, it makes sense. There's plenty of other planets. Even NASA, traditional science, is finding other Goldilocks planets, and we already know this galaxy, let alone the whole universe, is filled with them. And you said multiverse—you think there's other universes?

Yes, I do.

So, everyone isn't completely lost. What do you mean by veiled?

Yeah, so what I mean by veiled—this is a really important concept. Your consciousness precedes the human experience. So, that consciousness, its native state, is to be connected to all things and to know that connection and feel that connection all the time. So, if you imagine an ocean of water, you're like a drop in the ocean. So, your native state is to be one with the ocean, and you're still you. You're still a drop. You're individuated, but you're also one with the ocean, and that oneness is known and felt. What I mean is, in this state, you have access to all knowing, all data. You're capable of so much more than what we perceive here on Earth. So, in order to have the very specific and limited and dense experience of being human, you have to accept what we call very simply the veil, which just means a set of constraints in consciousness space that go along with having the incarnation experience.

Do you remember the experience of how that veil was put on you? Is that something you're okay to share?

Yeah, so accepting the veil was like surrendering to a plummet in vibration. This is really hard to describe, but imagine your body—but not your physical body—your body of awareness, the body that feels like your physical body, but it's really your consciousness connected to everything and existing in an extremely high vibration state. And then having a cloak of veil put upon you that you surrender to, surrender into, and accept. And then through doing that, there's this plummet and vibration down, down, down, lower, lower, lower, more lower, more lower, all the way down into this extremely dense state of being. And in that process, all knowing is erased, cut off—not actually erased, but you feel like it's erased. All of your connectedness, all of your remembrance, all that active knowing is veiled, is cut off. And that is precisely the value of the physical experiences that we come into. We have that experience of being just the human from the limited point of view with no memory, no memory of anything else.

So, when does this veil go on? Is this when you're a baby or so?

Yeah, so we're never actually a baby. I know that sounds okay, so the physical—think of the physical like a simulation that's running on its own, and then we interject into it and assume the role of a given perspective, a given body. So, in my case, I accepted the veil before this body was born, so while it was still in the womb of my mother. So, surrendering to the veil occurred, and then there was this plummet, and then I was in the womb. And then I almost rejected the experience actually because I was like, "I am not doing this. This vibration is so low. I'm not doing this." But I ended up sticking with it because the spirit came to me and encouraged me, showed me again who I really am. So, that occurred. I don't know when in the pregnancy, but I can at least say that after that happened, it felt like I was in the womb for a long time before a physical birth actually happened. And then I do remember—I have some short, brief, shocking memories of the day I was born physically in this life.

Right, and I know some of those memories were verified, but first, which you have to explain, but first, I do want to ask you—you said the veil blocks all memories, but it didn't for you, and it doesn't in some of the cases that, say, Dr. Jim Tucker has researched on cases of kids with past life memories and some in-between lives memories. So, why does it not?

Okay, so I'm not special first of all. So, I remember though, in my pre-birth experience, asking, "Can I have like a tiny bit of memory this time? I don't want to forget everything. I want to just have a little tiny bit of memory." And they said, "I, the guides, said I could do that." But I knew that that would make this life more challenging, more difficult because then the contrast is even greater. If there's any recollection of home, there's like this homesickness that gets introduced that's extreme, very extreme.

Okay, so the veil is very effective. It's super effective. It works, but on the other hand, the short answer to your question is the soul—each one of our souls is so huge and vast and complex and powerful. I mean, basically, to put it very in crude terms, you are a piece of God. Okay, so what can truly veil God? Well, only God's surrendering God's self can veil God. That's why we have to surrender ourselves into the veil. There's no way for you to be veiled any other way. Even though we surrender ourselves, we are still on the other side right now. So, it's not that there's like unfairness or something. It's more like each soul is so unique, and each veil is unique and organic and specific to that soul. Each life is unique, each body is unique, each context is unique, the history of every soul is unique. So, with all that uniqueness and all that richness, it's natural that some are there's going to be some breaks in the simulation. The veracity is maintained as best as possible, but you're going to have, especially as we awaken, which means especially as we increase the vibration of our consciousness towards what we really are, that it would become more and more because the vibrational distance is decreasing slowly. And as that distance decreases, it becomes more readily available to have some snippets of memory or awareness of who we really are.

And I don't think they've done this, but I'm so curious, and I wish they would—that you've never had your brain scanned, and people who have more pre-birth memories, there isn't some difference in your brains that have been discovered there?

Okay, you haven't participated in that.

Okay, and I'm going to ask a quick question. You use the word God, and I just—I'm curious what you mean by that because the only God I understood was like the biblical one, which is why I just never believed in anything like a god. So, when you say God, I'm assuming you don't mean the single sort of ding consciousness that tells—okay, so it's just a word, and I know that it's a loaded word. I personally don't mind that term, but I recognize it has a lot of baggage too. So, okay, so the word—oh my gosh, it points to something that is so far beyond language. I can't even possibly begin to speak to it. You could say metaphorically God is the source of all that is, the one ocean—ocean with a capital O—the great I Am presence of all things, the one true knower of which you are a part. So, that's not a dude. That's not a dude in the sky. It's being itself but also the most personal, loving wholeness of being. It's like, for each of us, it's like our dearest friend and our most poignant love and our parent. Yeah, it's like the truest relation. It's a relationship that's the closest to all of us actually.

Yeah, that's really interesting and probably something we can't fully understand as humans, correct?

Yeah.

And you said you had memory of your birth, and it was—I know that you also mentioned that was verified in your book. You mentioned that. I'm also just going to say because you said you've gone into a lot more details other places—Christian's book, he goes into a lot more of these details, so get his book. It's really good. It's also audiobooks. You can listen, you can read it. So, I just wanted to give you a little plug because I love your book. So, of course, but yeah, so tell us about your memory of your birth. The only verification I think that you're mentioning is later in my life, I drew the birth room for my mother, and she verified that that was where the objects in the room were located. Like, I remember where the bed was, where the heating grate was, the window, where the doctor was standing. It's just one image memory, and in this image, I was like up away from the bed.

So, I know they say babies can't see, so I don't really understand how I've seen this, but I remember seeing it. I remember the color of the paint on the heating grate. So, I mean, so that's, you know, is that formal verification? No, you know, it's subjective. It's close to home. I don't feel a need to prove it, but I've had other forms of verification though with experiential verification. Sometimes, if I have a non-physical experience with someone, I will really do my best when I'm interacting with them non-physically to try to confirm it and prove it that we've interacted that once, you know, we're here once we're doing the physical awake thing. And I've had probably half a dozen successes. I've had at least as many failures where the individual doesn't remember the interaction, but I've had some confirmations that were definitely good enough for me at least. And at least one while I was awake where I mentioned this briefly before we began recording, but I was interacting with a woman who I know that I know non-physically. I've never met her personally, and I had an interaction with her that I was able to confirm at least to my own satisfaction.

And what would you say is the most mind-blowing verified experience you've had that maybe someone who's very skeptical, especially someone who's in a lot of grief or maybe facing their own mortality, they might really love?

Well, I can at least share the example that I was just mentioning, and I will in a moment, but let me just point out that okay, so I am all for verification. I'm all for skepticism. We need to remain both open-minded but also skeptical and investigate with as much objectivity as possible. The truth stands up to all scrutiny. So, that's good. But I also want to point out, however, that the truest verification is your own personal experience of it. The truest evidence won't be an external like someone showed me a new object or told me a new story. It will be a knowing and experience yourself. Like, when I've been out of body and seen the color of the sky in a certain environment that is more colorful than anything on Earth—with that much lucidity and feeling my connectedness to it, it's so self-evidently real. It's off the charts. Like, it doesn't need you to come back to this comparatively black and white movie on Earth and say, "Oh, is that real?" No, no, no. You know it. You really know it. And that personal knowing, that personal experience, that's the real evidence.

So, is one quick comment to that—so I really lift up meditation as a practice, not so that you can have these amazing experiences. No, that's not the goal. Rather, I encourage that you go just very objectively investigate what your own consciousness is beneath thought. So, don't make anything up, no new stories, no new ideas. I know your thinking mind is going to go into overdrive. I want to give you some new ideas, and what are the new ideas I can think about? No, no, just put all that aside and actually go experientially with full alertness. Go investigate every day for 30 or 40 minutes, set every day for months. Don't judge it even for three or four months. Investigate experientially what is my awareness, what is my consciousness beneath thought. And I recommend an exercise in part four of my book to get started with that process if anyone is interested.

Okay, so that was a long tangent, but I think that's important because as soon as we talk about verification, we tend to think in our local thinking minds context, "Show me the evidence." Well, I'll at least share this brief story. So, this woman that I had interacted with online, I just sensed intuitively that her and I were like soul family. Like, I just knew her really well. So, I went for a walk at work one day out up a road, and I had this interaction with her higher—I know this sounds crazy, this is getting into the woo field, but this is what happened. I had this interaction with her, and I felt her send this like energy down my back, and it was very healing. And I remember her communicating, "This is a gift," and I said, "Thank you very much." It's really interesting. Wow.

And then I remember her nudging, "You see that piece of moss on the ground in front of you? Pick that up, take it back to your desk, and go tell my human—the me, you know, me that's playing the human—that you found this piece of moss in the context of you receiving this energetic gift from me." I'm like, "Okay, this is crazy. Okay, I'll be the crazy guy." So, I took the moss back to my desk at work, messaged this woman on Facebook, and I said, "I explain what happened," and she said, "I kid you not, last night I said to my husband, 'The perfect example of a gift that someone could give me would be a piece of moss.'" So, that kind of thing to me is verification. That's verification to me. Does anybody else have anybody else?

I mean, they didn't see that. It's not on paper. It's not like a thousand scientists can go study that or something. There are many studies out there of similar research, but for me, that's the kind of thing that now it no longer is strange. You know, when I have a verified confirmed interaction, that's not strange at all to me. I've become very familiar with feeling because I'm a very left-brain person too. You know, I'm a project manager of 20 years. I worked in the nuclear industry for 16 years, and that's just how my mind has historically worked. However, the deeper parts of ourselves, the intuitive portions, they actually know a lot more. When you're willing to be humble enough to put aside the intellect and actually go see what's actually down there, through that, I have felt the living connection I've had with others in ways that have been confirmed, and it's really beautiful.

I'm going to just tell a slightly verification-ish story, and I—for me, things get verification when you talk, you hear more and more stories again and again similar to what Christian shared, and you meet people like you, you know, Christian, who are really normal people, and it just happens more and more. And I think the body of evidence comes together to give us so much—I mean, more than just hope. But it was funny, I was watching Christian's talk during the IONS conference, and I was like, "Oh, I completely know him," like without a doubt, just the way you know you see someone you haven't seen in like six years that you worked with or 10 years ago from—I don't know how old anyone is, but you know, 10 years ago or school or whatever, and you're like, "I would see a person forever."

So, I'm watching him talk, I was like, "Oh yeah, he did this talk for a forever family webinar, and I help on the behind the scenes." So, I was like, "I know Christian." Then I said to him, "We both, you know, I went up and introduced myself and said that I have this podcast, What the F Just Happened, and would like him to come on." And he's like, "Oh yeah, I know you." And I said, "Yeah, you did the webinar for forever family." No, he didn't. So, I was like, "Oh, we, but I like, I know him. I've seen this talk. I've met him at parties, and I saw him on the afterparty one night at the IONS conference." And I said, "Oh, you must know this friend of mine.

Did we do a podcast together with him?" No, I, you know, he had to go. His whole family is there. He has fairly young children. I'm looking through, I think I found your LinkedIn or Facebook or something, but I was like, "Oh, you know what, I've got to figure this out because it was really bothering me, like no doubt I knew him." And he said, "No doubt he knew me." I was like, "Maybe did he used to work in the photography or videographer?

Maybe we knew each other when I used to work in fashion during a fashion week event, and you know, we photo shoot." No logical reason we've ever met each other, and Christian said he absolutely knew me, and I was like, "Okay, this is so weird. What if I like knew him between lives? Let me play with the evidence of this." And I brought that up before we start recording, Christian was like, "Oh yeah, yeah, no." So, that was—I mean, I sensed it before, you know, when you came up to—we were so, um, for the listeners, we went to the IONS party that one night in Washington, DC, met all sorts of amazing people, and you know, you and I got to have a conversation, and I just knew. I was really in the zone, the meditative state, and I was like, "Oh yeah, I definitely know you. I mean, you're like, yeah, from something." I'm like, "No, no, before this, obviously. Like, I mean, to me, it's obvious that there was, you know, there's relationship there." See, but that's how like so many of us—a lot of us have relationships, and we just don't remember it, or we come across each other, and we just feel some connection. It's deeper than that. I don't know what the specifics are. I'm not quick to jump on them. You know, I'm like, I remain skeptical too. It's important to keep that skepticism, but I also know, you know, my intuitive—I know, you know, when I know somebody. And so, yeah, it's not strange to me.

Yeah, so, um, yeah, so that was very an interesting experience. So, I'm going to actually—I want to know that or see what you have to say about this. What is life like on the other side? Sometimes it sounds like it'd be really boring. Just, oh, you're just in a sea of love. Not that love's not great, but like, it sounds like being at a spa, which is great for three days, but being in a spa for 10 years, I'd want to—I'd be so miserable. So, it sounds very boring. Is there purpose or friendship? Okay, what is it like?

I love this question. Okay, so the question is a little bit like let's say you and I are playing Minecraft together or playing a video game together, and we play Minecraft for years, and then you say to me in Minecraft one day, "Well, what's it like outside of Minecraft? It sounds so boring. There is so much to do on Earth outside of Minecraft. How could you possibly describe that to someone in Minecraft?" Similarly, the limitations that we experience while we're human are off the charts.

They're so high. So, when you take away those limitations, the native nature of spirit, of consciousness, is so creative and so powerful and so free that the possibilities for experience are unfathomably vast, way more than we can even imagine within the human mind. So, the other side is not just one place. It's not like one loading screen, and that's it, and then this is the real place. No, this is actually like the not real place, and there are many, many different reality systems that all have their own rules and their own purposes. And I only have awareness of some, and there's some that I felt guided not to share too much about, which is fine. I just can say at least that there is a multi-dimensional scope that is beyond imagining, and it's not boring.

It may be true that I will say at least though that when we exist in that very free state, there is a certain something that the limitation set of being physical provides that we don't get anywhere else. Like, a certain challenge that seems to be missing. So, you might say, like as a metaphor, let's say you work out every day, and you go to the gym, and you're in great shape, and then you stop working out for a couple of weeks. You just might crave going back to the gym. Now, in this case, it's not like the gym has something to offer that we don't already natively have. You know, we already are everything we need. We don't need anything. We don't need to do anything. Being is already whole. Yet, evolution occurs. Evolution is happening. Evolution meaning the expansion of love and joy. So, we may choose to re-engage this physical experience, or we may choose a great many other experiences.

I can also say very generally speaking that most other reality systems are thought-responsive. So, that is our intention and our thoughts immediately have an effect. That actually happens here on Earth too, but it's a lot slower. It's like ridiculously slow. So, there are a lot of different options, and you, I guess, universes, dimensions with different laws. The way here we have laws—I can't jump a thousand feet in the air. It takes X amount of hours to get from point A to point B. Every space in this reality—yeah, you can't go directly somewhere.

Right, right. And if I want a certain object, somebody has to physically make it. You can't just think it, and it will appear. So, those are the laws. That's right. Yeah, just like video games might have different rules. You know, you can play one video game, and you might play another one, and that has completely different rules, different story, different context, different character. Maybe there's no character. You know, maybe it's Pong. Whatever. There are reality systems of experience that are very different, but they all have their own rules of some kind, and ours just happen to be at the very far end of the high limitation spectrum. So, you can think of our reality at the far end.

I want to ask you a little bit about being Christian. What made you decide to be Christian—Christian the human, not Christian the religion.

Right, Christian the—oh yeah, Christian the human, Christian Sundberg. Yeah, I know that sounds crazy. I'm not actually Christian Sundberg. This is just a—there is no Christian Sundberg. I know you're seeing an image and hearing a voice. What I am is my awareness. I am the I. You are the you. You are the knower of your experience. But anyway, so why did I choose to engage this context? In my case, I wanted to process a very old fear that had bested me in a previous experience because I knew that there was a profound opportunity for expansion—the expansion of being and the evolution of consciousness, my consciousness, and all that is through this experience.

And so, the guides brought me this life as Christian as an opportunity that was a pretty good match for my intention. It actually wasn't as good of a match as a previous life that I had previously—not accidentally, but I had—I don't go too far down this path, but I had aborted this previous incarnation because I was so fearful in the womb. That previous life was actually a much better energetic match to my intention of facing this fear. This life was like pretty good, was good enough. So, that's like the main thing. And so, then when they brought it to me, I reviewed what it would be like to be Christian. You know, like millions and millions of possibilities before I was even incarnated. I reviewed like what it would be like to feel like to be me, to be here this long, you know, this like length of time that would feel so long, and to feel the body, and to feel what it would be like to actually be in certain circumstances that were more or less like depending on all the free will choice making that would unfold from me and from everybody else.

Now, the person you were supposed to be—was that with different parents?

I would say supposed to be same. That was no, that was just a previous opportunity that did not pan out. That was different parents. I don't know anything about that life. I just know it was more appropriate than this one would have been, but this is still good. It's good enough. Does the job. I'm glad I got to meet you, a cool person. I'm glad Christian Sundberg exists as you.

Okay, interesting. What do you know what number life, at least approximately?

I know that I've lived hundreds of times, but I don't have—I don't know about a number. I once meditated, and afterwards, I saw all these spheres that were my lives, and there were hundreds of them, and I was like, "Oh my gosh, I am all these people." Like, maybe that's a bad way to put it. I have experienced all these things. That's a better way to put it. So, I know that it's in the hundreds, but I have no idea.

Now, when we cross over, you said there's kind of different dimensions, just like here we could live in a village in Thailand, a big city in China, we could live in a small town in America. I mean, there's just so many completely different physical experiences we could have. Most likely, we can live on other Goldilocks planets. Are there all different communities and styles you could live on?

I can't speak in great depth about it because I'm still quite veiled, but there are for sure other communities that we can engage. I'm reminded of the book Autobiography of a Yogi that my wife and I are reading right now, and in this book, the author, Yogananda, his master comes back to him after death and shares his experience in what he calls the astral worlds and then the higher set of realities he calls the causal plane, and then he gives quite a bit of specific context to what those universes are like, those realms are like.

I won't attempt to be that specific, but I can at least say that yes, we tend to go—to put it very generally—we go where we resonate. We go where we vibrate. So, you could say the quality of your being and also your karma, which just means the cause and effect of all the choices you've made and whether you've been loving or fearful, tend to help guide you into future experiences that will be beneficial for you and for others in the long run.

And now, what about bad people? Because it sounds like—no offense, I don't think this about you as Christian Sundberg—I'm only repeating what you said. You were a person who was very, very unkind in previous lives. Once you said, "I had one previous life when I was so—"

The thing is that okay, we tend to think, "Oh, good people and bad people." There's duality talking again. So, the thing is though, the nature of spirit itself is love. Your true nature is love, no matter how many layers of crap have been piled on you in this life. Your true nature is love, and spirit knows that, and spirit sees that. Okay, but what there is though is a difference in levels of evolution.

You say we are each at a different stage in our evolution, and that makes it sound like duality, but for a second, let me just point out though that evolution doesn't necessarily mean it's not like a scale A to B. It'd be like saying, you know, I use this metaphor before, but I kind of like this metaphor. Like, if one person is like a grapevine, and the other person is like an oak tree, which one is more evolved? Which one's better? Well, you can't really compare them. One might be able to bear sweet fruit; the other one might be strong and have a thick trunk. They're just different. So, I'm just pointing that out because what we really have is difference in evolution.

And okay, so then though, what's the main thing that we're processing? And the simple word that I use is fear. Fear just means yet unevolved. It just means a part of us has rejected reality, and then when we do that, when we have fear, then this crazy fast thing happens here on Earth all over the place. We're living in a world that currently has—at least historically has been—and that is ego arises.

And ego is just the portion of the self that's really trying to do its best to fix the problem because now there's this big missing thing. "I don't feel connected to the whole anymore. I don't feel powerful. I don't feel loved." So, we just grab onto anything we can to try to get that power back or to try to get that love back or to try to prove to ourselves, "Look, I have value now because look, I got a 4.0 in college," or "I have value because I have money," or "I have power because look, I can harm the person next to me and be mean right now, and my ego makes me feel better for two seconds."

You know, our world—so I'm just saying we express through ego fear that we have. So, to your question, all I'm saying is this fear that I came to process in this life—in a previous life, it overtook me, and I became an egoic monster because I was so afraid. So, ego and bad—the bad person you could say—it just means they have fear, and that's okay. I'm not saying it's okay to cause damage. I just mean that it's okay to recognize, "No, no, no, it's okay if you have fear.

We can actually love and accept one another anyway." In fact, love is the answer to all that fear. And when we really process our fear, we grow in love, and then the ego doesn't have to be there anymore. It doesn't have to have an us versus them thinking anymore. It doesn't have to do that because the love, peace, joy, and freedom is our true nature. It just automatically rises up and shines as we process all the crap, as we process all the fear.

Now, this applies because some of the people you're talking about just sound like mean jerks, which is different than serial killers or dictators. Does it do the same thing?

I don't draw a big distinction, really. Okay, actually, because my fear is the same as Hitler's fear. The only difference is a difference in scope or actualized effect. Now, I'm not saying that the actualized effect isn't important. Oh, it's important. We should not hurt each other. We should do our best to be compassionate and love each other. And there are different degrees of fear, and there are different degrees of power that fear wields. But fear is always insane.

That's just the bottom line. It doesn't matter if it's a small fear or a large fear. Fear is always insane, and where ego is operating, it's insane. It's going to cause damage or hurt others in some degree. It's just that some of those individuals reach points of power, and then we have methodically wielded ego through many of our societal institutions actually because we've institutionalized us versus them thinking. We've institutionalized certain predatory economic patterns. You know, like, we really are deep in this ego game. That's just where we've come from. It's just because we have so much fear because the limitations are so extreme. So, we have to like worry about all that so much. It's just if we can go into ourselves and find and process our own fear, that actually helps the whole world to move forward and heal.

Now, this is getting maybe a little philosophical, but can't fear be good at times? Like, let's say there's a deadly pandemic, and you're scared, so you decide to stay home, and you save your life and vulnerable people's lives. I'm scared to drive 100 miles an hour on the highway, and that's probably a good thing because not only is that protecting myself, I'm protecting other people. Are there not fears that are good in those senses?

The way that I use fear is somewhat philosophical in the sense that I'm using it in the context of that which is the only apparent opposite of love. There's no actual opposite of love, but it's the only apparent real thing that we're dealing with here, and that is yet unevolvedness or rejection. The examples that you listed can all be undertaken without fear. You can be prudent and wise without fear.

You can recognize and decide not to drive 100 miles an hour, and you don't need fear to be the thing that tells you not to do that. No, you know, like one of the simple examples is in our society, we have a relatively crude justice system. It works, but it's not perfect, of course, and good people end up being hurt. So, the question is, do you need laws to prevent you from murdering someone? If you do, we should have some laws, and we are at the point as a species where many people do need laws. We do need the structures because we have the fear. But if there was no fear, if there was no ego, we wouldn't even need that. You see, because love is our true nature. I know that seems like a super far way away from where we are now, but I think it's important that we remind ourselves in that direction because that loving nature of spirit is the truth of what we are.

That reminds me of an interesting quote. I feel so bad I don't remember who said it because it was really great, but it was someone in response to a religious fundamentalist—and I'm not knocking religion, anyway, I'm knocking a very fundamentalist version—but a religious fundamentalist had written, "Without a belief in God, what stops you from raping and killing all you want?" And the person responded, "I am raping and killing all I want. I don't want to rape or kill anyone.

The amount I want to do that is zero, and the amount I've done that is zero." And I was like, "That makes so much sense because yeah, I don't, you know, as of now, I don't—I can't say I don't want to murder in the sense I don't want that on me, but if I had a chance to murder someone who was maybe like a serial killer and I could save a lot of lives, that would probably be the right thing to do. I don't know if I could do it presented with that. I don't know, but in that case, I would probably say if I knew this person was going to go murder like 20 children or just people, innocent people, it probably is the right thing to do, but it's absolutely—and I would probably be tortured with that being the one presented with that choice, but it probably would be the ethical thing."

This is a complex ethical point, of course, but I'll just at least make this one comment. I don't want to try to speak to that in breadth, but the person who might go cause harm to others is a part of you. They're your brother or sister. They're one with the ocean just as you are, and the people that they might go hurt are one with the ocean. And so, you can very lovingly acknowledge and with great compassion, "Oh, this person is acting unconsciously. I need to intervene," even if that intervention means physical violence. That might be required.

Now, here's the thing though, the ego will get a hold of that idea real quick because it wants excuses to play out its own us versus them thinking, its own seeking of power. I'm simply saying that we can act the way that is best for love even without that egoic fear. We can intervene against the person who might do something terrible even with love in our hearts, even though it makes us sad to do so, even if we know that they're our brother and sister. We can stand up and do the right thing, and we don't actually ever need to lose our peace. See, that's the thing. Anytime you feel like your peace is being lost, there's some association, some fear, some ego pattern that is being triggered.

Yeah, now we're going on an hour. Do you have time for a couple more questions?

Sure, wonderful. Yeah, I've just never had anyone on who's talked about the type of experiences you've had.

So, now, NDEers—near-death experiencers—will often say they experience their near-death experience as realer than real. When you—has it been realer than real for you?

Yes, wow, yes, 100%. So, both the out-of-body experiences I've had and the pre-birth experience were a thousand times more real, more lucid than this. I mean, I don't know, I can't put a number on it. A thousand is—I can't even put a number on it. It's just a different—it's like going to an IMAX movie theater and then going back and watching black and white television, and somebody says, "How do you know there's something outside of black and white television?"

Because guess what, I've seen it. It's so real there. Like I said, there is sensory experience on the other side that's so full and rich—sights and sounds and feelings and colors that don't even exist on Earth. And my pre-birth experience is so deep and so personal and so multifaceted. It's not like an earthly memory. It's very—oh, it's so holy and so close to me and so complete. I don't know how to describe it because it's not like one discrete thing. It's like connected to everything, and the realness of that is—it's far more real than even this.

And can I ask you what you mean by that? Like, do you have stronger physiological sensations? Do you feel more alive? I guess I've had very real dreams, very real, but they don't feel as real. I have yet to have any experience feel as real as here.

Yes, yes to both questions. So, we define reality on Earth. We tend to define reality as sensory experience and thoughts and feelings. I saw that you went to this place where there was this object which had this shape and this color and blah, blah, you know, on and on. So, we're very interested in that, and like I said, those do exist in higher systems and even in more rich and real ways.

As an example, one time I was out of body, and I was looking at the grass. Like, this reality—I don't know, I don't know how to describe it or label it, but I was in this place that had this beautiful sky and this beautiful grass, and this grass was so green and so lush and so alive. The color itself was living. The color was alive, and it was a part of me, and I was a part of it, but I also was me. I was also individuated. And I remember staring at this grass and being like, "Oh my gosh, the green of this grass is so beautiful and so green and so rich. I feel like I could stare at it all day and I would be completely filled with bliss just from staring at the green of this grass."

And so, I was, and then I started thinking, "What makes this so green?" As soon as I started kind of analyzing, in this case, I actually returned to the human awareness because I started using more—I started focusing into my human object set. But anyway, I'm just saying that that sensory experience was off the charts real. The aliveness is off the charts real. This experience is the more dead state. You know, it's funny because we talk about when people die, "Oh, you know, they're dead," and then when we portray in our movies the other side, we tend to portray these gray, drab environments as if life on Earth is the real thing, and that no, no, this is the more dead state right now.

This is the much more limiting state. This is the dream, but like in a fractal pattern, like all things arise here in this dream. We might fall asleep at night and have other dreams that are less real. That's like a fractal down a step down, whereas when we awake from this physical life, we are in a higher fractal pattern up, and it's more real, like waking up from a dream. It's like when you wake up from a dream in the morning, you don't have to say to yourself, "Oh, am I in my bed? Is this real?" You just know. You just know this is the real world, and the dream was just a dream. That's just normal. So normal, you get up and you go about and you have your breakfast. It's no big deal. It's like that after we die too. It's like, "Oh, that was just a dream," and that's the more normal, the more real, and it's just obvious.